We received a letter from the Comptroller of the Currency on 11/27/12. I figured it was to wrap up the complaint that we made on 8/27/12. Exactly three months earlier.
It was actually a letter saying that WFHM didn't fall under their jurisdiction. Which is strange, because three months ago they contacted WFHM. Maybe they forgot.
In any case, this let to a new call from Executive Mortgage Specialist #3 on 12/3/12. I was a little surprised. I apologized, because I had not initiated this complaint, at least not directly. In any case, I brought EMS #3 up to speed, reiterated my displeasure with the way PMI removal was communicated (incorrectly), how my demand to remove PMI was handled (no response in the 30 days allowed), and how the offer to remove PMI on the condition of a current appraisal was flawed (we believe they have waived the right to request an appaisal because of their delays).
We'll see where this goes. At this point, we feel the best option is legal. I've been hoping that WFHM will realize that they have made a mistake and just agree to remove PMI going back to when we hit 80% LTV. We would have paid it down even sooner if we had a correct response, but we'd be satisfied with that.
We're fighting the exact same battle with wf right now. We refinanced in November 2011. March 1, 2013 we reached 80% LTV and requested to have the PMI removed. First, they told us we had to maintain the PMI for a minimum of 2 years, even though this language does not appear anywhere in our mortgage paperwork. Now, they're telling us we have to wait until 78% LTV even though our mortgage paperwork says we can request it be removed on March 1, 2013 as it will reach 80% LTV then.
ReplyDeleteHave you made any progress with them?
Hi - By September, with the 2nd executive mortgage specialist, we reached an agreement where they would retroactively remove the PMI payments back to when we reached 80% LTV as long as we got a current appraisal showing that the value had not dropped. At the time, values had been dropping, so this wasn't a fair offer. I would take them up on it now, but the specialists will not answer my messages as they consider this to be closed. I may have to file a new complaint, because going through normal customer support is worthless.
DeleteI came across this blog post in my quest to remove PMI from Wells Fargo. We purchased a house last year, 15% down, and a plan to aggressively pay down our mortgage to remove PMI as quickly as possible. Wells Fargo purchased our loan, then shortly after Freddie Mac bought it, but it continued to be serviced by WFM.
ReplyDeleteThe experiences you shared made me fear for the worst, but I just wanted to share a counterpoint, that it doesn't have to be this way.
The day our LTV hit 80% (to the penny), I mailed my request to perform an appraisal to Rels Valuation (the company WFM contracts their appraisals to), along with my credit card info to pay for it. I got a call 7 days later from the appraiser, who came to our house the next day. He did a clearly rushed job looking around, taking photos, and measuring rooms (the measuring tape was never taught, or even came close to the walls, so I assume he was taking approximate measurements). 3 days later, I got a copy of the appraisal via email, which showed that not only had our home not lost value, but had appraised +10%. I called WFM that day and requested PMI deletion. They told me that they put the request "in the system" but that I'd still have to pay PMI on the following payment. To my surprise, on my next payment I saw an extra credit to my principal which would have otherwise gone toward PMI, despite what they told me on the phone. PMI gone! It is possible!
One thing I will RESOUNDINGLY back you up on, however, is how completely useless and incompetent the WFM phone support was on this issue. Every time I called I would get the same moronic lady (didn't catch her name) who provided all the same inconsistent, inaccurate information, the same as you posted here on your blog. All I wanted to know was what the process was to remove PMI. She talked down to me like I was an idiot, and it come down to shouting. I hung up and called back several times until I got someone else, and I just ended up getting more of the same BS. After getting through to a supervisor's supervisor, I was finally able to get some answers, but not after a whole lot of aggravation.
Basically, my advice to anyone reading this who wants to remove PMI, or learn how to remove PMI from your WFM loan ... When you call WFM, don't bother talking to them. Just say "I would like to request PMI". Even if you're not at 80% LTV, that's okay. They will mail you a computer-generated letter with your options, and instructions of how to remove PMI. This is the only way you will get accurate information on how to remove PMI. The people answering the phones have no idea what's in this letter, or how to interpret it.
Basically, you have 3 options to remove PMI from WFM:
* @ > 80% LTV, you must have an appraisal performed, and provide receipts to prove that you have reached 80% LTV through an increase in the home's value because of upgrades. They will not accept an increase in value as a result of improved market conditions
* @ 80% LTV, you must have an appraisal performed, and prove that the home has not lost value. If the market is going up (like it has in the last 12 months), then this is a slam dunk. Our house could have been on fire during the appraisal and I think we would have still been at 80% LTV
* Send a check to pay down your balance to 78% LTV, which will automatically terminate PMI, no appraisal required.
Anyways, I wish you luck and hope you succeed getting your PMI refunded. WFM phone support is a joke!
Excellent summary and I agree completely. We eventually paid down to 78% because the executive specialists considered the matter closed and stopped answering my calls. I didn't know how to go about getting the refund. I imagine that Wells Fargo likes it to be this way, and I wonder how many people they have continued to collect PMI payments from that don't need to. Enough for a class action lawsuit, I imagine.
DeleteDid you file a complaint with CFPB? http://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/
ReplyDeleteWe filed one against WFHM (not about PMI removal) last week and in two days we got a call from WFHM (515-324-6805) acknowledging the complaint.
We are investors with multiple properties and mortgages so we deal with mortgage servicers' runaround ALL THE TIME. We're CONSTANTLY fighting them. It's almost like our full-time job!
We had PMI on a couple of our properties and had it removed more than a few years ago (all servicers have stricter standards for investment properties so the required LTV was 70% or so). In fact, WFHM removed it pretty painlessly with a BPO. We had an issue with BoA which required an appraisal.
Anyway, your situation is similar to what we ran into when we had our escrows cancelled. Every other servicer, including WFHM, canceled our escrow when we met the requirements, but the notorious AHMSI didn't.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/finance/american_home_mortgage.html
They dragged and dragged for months, sending us a form letter after a form letter. We even went to their HQ since it was local and we were almost thrown out!
We sent a certified letter to the then COO/EVP and he ignored us! So we filed a complaint with the Texas AG and he contacted AHMSI right away (the money held in the escrow account is OUR MONEY, not the servicer's!) Then we received a FedEx from their Executive Office saying the escrow would be canceled. Victory after 6 months of fighting!
At the same time, we filed a complaint with the Ohio AG to show him how unscrupulous AHMSI was because he had sued AHMSI, which had countersued him!
Since you're dealing with a national bank, the state AG may not help, but it's worth a try. You can file a complaint online.